Navigating the Invisible Load

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey, what's up? Y'all we're back, and today we're going to be talking about something. How y'all doing you all right Before I jump into it you all right, your mom and them. Good, that's what's up.

Speaker 3 0:09

I'm proud of you.

Speaker 1 0:10

Today we're talking about something that clearly has struck a nerve out there.

Speaker 2 0:14

And it's the invisible load. You know, that mental checklist running around in the background, the task that nobody notices. But somebody's got to do it.

Speaker 1 0:25

Yeah, that nobody notices, but somebody's got to do it. Yeah, they talk about that on my timeline a lot and if you're feeling like you're that somebody who always does it, or if you're with someone who always says that it's there and they want you to do something about it, I think that we're going to get into that today so how do couples navigate it without feeling resentment?

Speaker 2 0:40

how do you get real help, not just let me know if you need anything help?

Speaker 1 0:43

Nah, because that hey, just ask me to do it and I'll do it. That's not going to cut it.

Speaker 3 0:49

But how would you know?

Speaker 1 0:50

that I don't know, but we finna talk about it. This is a sit down talk. Let's go.

Speaker 2 0:55

A lot's been happening. A lot's been happening. Why don't you do a real quick, you know recap.

Speaker 1 1:05

Because, because it has been a while since people have been here. So what's going on with you, man? Uh man, you know, right now we writing a book. Right now we are getting ready to offer some amazing courses to people to help them navigate the challenges of relationships and we're not going to charge people a million dollars for it. We want to make it accessible, but that's for another time.

Speaker 1 1:18

Um videos been going viral family been family and kids been children and you know wife been wife and it's it's been amazing and I'm really excited to be back with y'all. What's been new with you?

Speaker 2 1:29

well, I have a vlog now, so if link gonna be down below so I think, yeah, before the sit down talk, we had like a weekly family vlog, or maybe it was bi-weekly, and I really missed doing that and I really wanted to do something for myself. So I launched the vlog. It's the simmer down diaries. Um, it's not on this channel, it's on my own channel. So please make your way over there if you want some like life, want some healing, if you want some mom stuff, if you want some entrepreneur stuff. It's just a whole lot of stuff going on a lot of the behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 1:58

Things are gonna be there it's really good.

Speaker 1 2:00

You get to capture a part of our lives that you don't really see through this medium. So please, I'll put the link down there. Go check her out. It's good stuff. And also, in the spirit of good stuff, our conversation today comes on the heels of a crazy viral video that we had. Let's roll it real quick.

Speaker 3 2:17

Poo Poo, give mommy some space. Ok, I know, let's give her a little privacy. Let's give her a moment. You know how sometimes you go up in your room and you don't want to be bothered and we give you your space.

Speaker 1 2:29

I think everybody in the house needs that sometimes, what you think.

Speaker 3 2:35

Tiffany, you want to come help me? No True, You're very busy right now. Oh, the fridge needs to be reorganized, but it ain't happening in a night. I'll tell you that much. Hey, where's your bones? You got enough going on. Yeah, don't be busy when you don't have to Go upstairs.

Speaker 1 2:57

Get away from the kids, man, Not today, Satan not today, when that didn't, I didn't think that moment was special at all neither did I.

Speaker 2 3:11

It was really our everyday life and I was like why aren't you posting this?

Speaker 1 3:15

and that's not even to brag, but it's just to say that I think noemi and I are fortunate enough to be the type we just our chemistry, our conversational chemistry just matches and we are able to have these talks that are very constructive, um, and that, uh, they make sure that nobody is overburdened, because we both got duties to the family. Sometimes they overlap, a lot of times they don't, and we both be stressed for two completely different reasons. So that wasn't remarkable to me, but when I saw people's responses, right right responses.

Speaker 1 3:47

I'm talking, I think, as of now. One video has 20 million. I think they both got over 20 million views that's just on one platform between the two platforms.

Speaker 2 3:59

It's like 40 yeah, between the three.

Speaker 1 4:02

There's youtube, there's tiktok and there's instagram shorts because there's a million on youtube. Youtube shorts, right no, it's like 3.5 million, that's so that, to me, says, no matter how I look at this conversation, it speaks to a larger conversation about relationships, relationship dynamics and how all of this stuff works together. That nobody's talking about for real. So we wanted to bring that here and kind of walk through what we do, walk through what works for us and have you take away something meaningful from it.

Speaker 2 4:32

So before you do that I mean I guess before we walk through it I want some more insight on like what was, what was your reason behind posting it?

Speaker 3 4:43

What was?

Speaker 2 4:43

my reason behind posting a video.

Speaker 1 4:46

Uh, when I went back and looked at it, I wanted to make easier content, but so I just started filming my days. I put a mic on and just let the day happen. And I realized, looking back at it, that my life and my interactions with you and the kids, they don't. They don't look the same when I look back at them as they feel when they happen in their real life. Does that make any sense? It's kind of like when you watch a movie for the first time and you're just, you're going through it, you're just experiencing it in real time, and then when you go back and watch it a second time, you have a different perspective because it's not happening to you in real time, you're not caught up in the emotion and you're just observing it from a different perspective. And that's man, that's. I saw that and it just. I never seen anything like that so what did you see?

Speaker 1 5:31

um, I saw, because my timeline is full of relationship content, but it's so negative it's so so many people who have negative experiences with their relationships. They're very vocal, in which they should be. They got the right to be. But the people who don't have negative experiences are not as vocal, and I realized in that moment I've never seen a dynamic like that play out on my timeline. So I didn't think that it was special, I just thought it was different.

Speaker 1 5:54

Yeah, I was like let's try let's see what people think about this. Um, and I did not expect that response at all.

Speaker 2 6:00

I didn't either. I didn't. I remember looking at it and I was like, oh OK, this is cute. And then I think I was on my way to go pick up the kids and by the time I made it to school I was like, oh, shoot, what is happening? And then I was like, oh yeah, because your followership was going up.

Speaker 2 6:16

That's how I noticed it was a number of followers that he had on Instagram was going up and it was really close to like 800. I'm like, oh, I'll go buy some balloons. We're going to go celebrate. By the time I made it home, he was at 850. And I'm like what is going on? And it made me go back because I'm like is it an old post that's going viral? Did somebody repost? I'm like the post of us in the kitchen, Like what happened. And then, reading through the comments, I got some more insight and I was like, oh, I get it, I really get it now.

Speaker 1 6:44

So let's let's break it down a little bit in the video. So Noemi was washing her hair that day. She was washing and drying her hair and the kids man, the kids got a mommy complex, like all kids do. I could be sitting two feet away from them. They will walk past me and ask her for something. So a lot of my job is just being a bodyguard for her from now.

Speaker 2 7:07

That's like 80% of this job and they still slip through the cracks. Yeah, they shifty man very, very sneaky.

Speaker 1 7:12

So she went to the bathroom and my oldest just followed her in there and I'm like, hey, babe, like what you need, she's all. I just wanted to ask mommy a question. She, she didn't. It wasn't a good question, she just she just won't be.

Speaker 2 7:24

she wanted to ask mommy a question. She didn't. It wasn't a good question, no, she just wanted to be. She wanted to climb back into the uterus. That's what she wants.

Speaker 1 7:28

You know man these kids get a lot of one-on-one time. They can hear, no, they can hear, not right now. That's how you build strong boundaries for your children. But I told her, nah, give mommy some room. And I gave, like, don't you like taking room for yourself? And then I was trying to put groceries in the refrigerator, trying to get Sydney to help. She ain't want to do it. That's cool.

Speaker 2 7:49

Whatever?

Speaker 1 7:50

shorty. And then Noemi I was like dang, I just said to myself out loud, man, this refrigerator need to be reorganized. And Noemi did something that she does a lot. She volunteered her services for something that wasn't necessary at all and she was like like, nah, I'll do it, babe. No, you got energy that's going every which way. You don't need energy going. No, you're washing your hair, dog like you are busy.

Speaker 2 8:16

You are busy, you don't have time for this rest your bones.

Speaker 1 8:19

And when I read through the comments, it's clear to me so many women saying things like oh my gosh, I feel validated, oh my gosh, I feel seen. I wish someone would give me a break. I mean like, comment after comment after comment, and while that's normal in our house, um, I realize that's not normal in everybody's house.

Speaker 1 8:38

No, it's not, it's not so I think there needs to be some context as to how we even got there, because it's easy to see that video and feel like, oh yeah, this is. They just operate like this, like nah it's it took work to get here.

Speaker 2 8:52

What do you? When do you think you realize? I mean, let's take a step back.

Understanding the Invisible Load

Speaker 1 8:56

Real quick, okay, okay, barbara Walters, with the interview. I see you, shorty.

Speaker 2 9:00

I'm also just trying to like okay, let me give you some context for me like, like I've heard the term invisible load before I actually heard it, I think for the first time, listening to Sterling K Brown and his wife's podcast.

Speaker 2 9:12

One of the episodes was specifically about invisible load and while, like, I felt the way that she felt I didn't necessarily have the language that they did and I remember talking to you about it like briefly, but going back to the invisible, though it really just goes to or I guess it reflects all of the things that. Can we say, moms? Can we just keep it a thousand?

Speaker 2 9:34

yeah, it's a lot of things that moms got to do that we don't necessarily like, are conscious that we're doing sometimes like staying on top of doctor's appointments, staying on top of like what they need at school birthday parties. Birthday parties classroom stuff and right now it's the holiday season, so it's spirit week and you gotta dress like the grinch this day and dress like an elf this day, and it's like, just keeping in mind, monday is pe, thursday is gym, whatever.

Speaker 2 9:59

I mean, I guess that's the same thing now, whatever, whatever whatever but like that's what the invisible load is and it's like if you don't do it, nobody else is going to pick that up, you know. And so just kind of give you guys context on what that term means. But for you, like, when did you realize that the invisible load was a thing?

Speaker 1 10:19

It was an article called the Visceral Scream. I can't remember who wrote it. There's an article called the Visceral Scream. I can't remember who wrote it. Was it Dr Pooja Lakshmi? I don't remember, but it's in the article. It's called the Visceral Scream and it talks about just being overstimulated and having all these responsibilities as a woman and not feeling like you're receiving adequate help. And also being a therapist when you counsel couples. The invisible load is something that comes up very often and I'm searching on instagram, you know I'd see on tiktok I see women talk about the invisible load all the time all the things I have to do, and it's not. It's not just the things you have to do, it's the, the pre-work for those things or the preparatory, absolutely all the little strings that come with that sweater man.

Speaker 1 11:00

It's so much so it's been on my radar for a long time, but it's not something that we talk about in communities and my homies, like when we are together. We don't have those conversations the same way. But I will say this though, boo, when I'm, when I'm hearing the conversation, just keep in mind like I run the intersection of just a dude, active husband, active father, licensed therapist and when I do see the content about the mental load, I think there's like two pieces to it. There's an informational piece, like the piece that informs you of what it is, how it works how it impacts people.

Speaker 1 11:34

And then there's this other piece that's like this action piece, like responsibility piece what you can do and I think the conversations do a really good job of pointing out the information Like women. This is what we are dealing with like this is the thing that's in our face, and, like I get it clear that that messaging couldn't be more clear.

Speaker 1 11:51

When it comes to the actionable part, though, that's where the content starts to get a little divisive it starts to get a little condescending and I can see where it doesn't really help men and not saying it's women's job to help men figure this out not saying that at all but like I can see where that conversation isn't helpful for men to figure out what's next, because how we move through that in session is completely different than how these conversations are framed in person. So, um, just like all all those things together, put it on notice for me right.

Speaker 2 12:20

So you said, okay, I'm fine, I'm following. I'm trying to follow real quick, so you're saying the action piece is what kind of initiates the what's next?

Speaker 2 12:29

But even before that, do you feel like the invisible load was something that you noticed before the article? And the reason why I'm asking that is because, like at least in the vlogs and the podcast and all of the like, like research that I've done on what the invisible load is like, the invisible part of the word is something like huge and the issue isn't necessarily always the action, is even the recognition, so like was it. I guess the question is like why is it so visible to women and so invisible to their partners, in this case, husbands?

Speaker 2 13:02

or you know boyfriends or you know whatever I think.

Speaker 1 13:05

I think that's a real deep, deep conversation because it's always framed just as men don't do enough right. I can tell you as someone who counsels women sometimes women take on a lot that for sure that is not their responsibility. And it falls down to like well, who else is going to do it? And there's like this popular theory, like let it happen, let it fall that doesn't work for everybody.

Speaker 1 13:24

Colby Campbell talked about that at my friends but I think that sometimes with moms and with women, their identity is really tied in the execution of these tasks to complete the goal. And I think if it doesn't happen, like if if the kids show up in school in different color pajamas, I personally do not give a damn, I don't care. But you may care differently because it reflects differently on you. There's a ridiculous expectation on mothers versus fathers. There's a lot more scrutiny. I can get online and say, hey, man, these kids get on my nerves. I can't stand these kids and because I'm a dude like I can get away with that. A mom get online and say the same thing. She will not have the same response from people.

Speaker 1 14:06

Fdk, no, I'm changing the narrative listen but you, you know, amy gaines and every and a lot of people love you and you can get away with what a lot of a lot of women can't get away with. So I think there's also like that, that unfair double standard toward women. I also think like men and women are growing into an understanding of what we are at two completely different rates.

Speaker 2 14:33

For sure.

Shifting Perspectives on Invisible Load

Speaker 1 14:34

And I think that women are maturing into that in a way where, like I'm saying, moms are maturing into that in a way that dads are still trying to catch up. Dads are still getting claps for changing diapers on some levels, levels, you know, and, babe, it's a lot I don't know I don't want to run this conversation, but it's starting to make me think of more it like all the double standards for sure.

Speaker 2 14:55

So before I mean, let's, if this, this might be a part two, part three, you know conversation, but I just want to get to like the root of it, the invisible load. Why is it invisible outside of the double standards, is there, I guess. Is there validity in the argument that, like, let's just say, in a heterosexual, you know marriage kind of situation, is it valid to say that, like there is, the load is visible to the mom, is invisible to the dad? Like, is that valid? Is that, is that something that we can work off of to continue the conversation? Or is that where it's skewed?

Speaker 1 15:33

I think my bias is going to hit too hard for me to answer that question, because my bias is that I think I think men are separated, men are kind of lumped together. When we had this conversation, men are a monolith yeah, but men are separated, men are kind of lumped together when we had this conversation.

Speaker 1 15:44

Yeah, it's like men are a monolith, yeah, but men are separated into different factions. There are men who carry on like that burden of the mental load, like the stay-at-home dads, and it's hard to get some of them, dudes, to give their wife some grace man. So I think it's more of what the responsibility to the person is than the gender thing, and we just so happen to live in a society where those two things just fit in the perfect categories more often than not. So the primary caregiver role is usually going to go to the mom and the you know, get out here and work role is going to go to the dad even though a lot of moms work too.

Speaker 1 16:19

So that it's. It's just not. You're not dividing by even numbers, bro, you won't have some remainder. But I think, like with this conversation, man, I think it's easy to just say like men don't care enough, and I think there are some men who do not care enough. I think there's another faction where there the the man does not care as much as the woman does, and he may have to acquiesce Like everything isn't necessary, everything isn't urgent. I don't know why the kids have to play two sports, but now I'm required to drive them to two sports because you, as a mom, feel like you're not a good mom if you don't do all these things. And overcompensating, yeah, and those things aren't necessary, but when you go to your communities, they validate you doing the most as a mom and you don't see the need for the rest, for not doing enough.

Speaker 3 17:08

So now you gotta sign up. Talk about it. Talk about it, listen talk about it it even happens to me.

Speaker 2 17:14

It even happens to me.

Speaker 1 17:15

Oh, I'm gonna say that for what you it happens especially to you, because people have an idea of who you are as a mom and a woman. That's a motif of who you are and it's not who you actually are. It's not who you actually are. So I, I, I get it, man. It's so easy just to hit me, man, be f***ing up. Yeah, like we f*** up royally, and it's easy to just make us the little whipping boy of the situation. But I've never met a couple where the invisible load was an issue where it wasn't both people's work to change something in order to make it more equitable. Exactly, and the invisible part you said earlier is the operative word. It's invisible because when you say, when we decided to put these kids in the school, we knew that they were going to go to the school, that was the visible part. We knew that they were going to go to the school. We ain't know about all the depressed.

Speaker 1 18:03

I'm already there. But not like who would have known all the other invisible pieces, and unless you take complete ownership over that, you don't know what it all entails. So imagine a duty within the family system that requires so much work but one person has primary ownership. It's like man you. If you got kids, you know it's. It's. It's not just having a baby, it's where the diapers, where the wipes. Did we order more? Are they nighttime diapers? What size of the diapers?

Speaker 2 18:33

did they grow out of?

Speaker 1 18:35

did they grow out of it? Are you allergic to pampers versus huggies? It's so much that if you're not the primary person doing that, two weeks off of that duty and you have no idea what's going on?

Speaker 2 18:44

completely different child. They eat something different, they in a different size. Like it's it is, that's just parenting that's just what it is.

Speaker 1 18:52

It's parenting. So I have a question for you. I got a question for you because you've been asking me a lot of questions I haven't asked you, ask me, go ahead do you feel be honest too? Okay, because I know you feel some of the invisible load for sure um, and you share that with me.

Speaker 1 19:07

So, like with you, what I notice is, I think a lot of people have misplaced anger towards their significant others, like, if I'm angry at you for one thing, it becomes easy to be angry at you for everything, um, and you don't do that. My question to you is, with the invisible load, like I don't feel, like you blame me for the spots that I missed, like how do you, how do you get to that mindset? How, how are you there?

Speaker 2 19:33

because I, yeah, I don't know how you got here, I just know that you arrived so I actually love that question, um, and I thought about it a lot, lot just because of how like big this video has gotten. But one part is my parents. Like I've said it before, I grew up in a two parent household and my parents shared the load. Like everything was maybe not 50 50 financially, but it was definitely like split. My dad washed the clothes and my mom folded, my mom cooked and my dad washed the dishes. Like she didn't have to touch a dish. You know she there was.

Speaker 2 20:07

It was just an unspoken like agreement between them and it was never like everything that they did. If I had to go to the doctor, um, and they both can go, they both went. Like it was always like they, they took. I mean, they had a lot of pride but they took what's the word? They valued what the relationship could be with both people putting into it. It wasn't like. It wasn't really like. I don't know how to explain it. I don't know how to explain it because I haven't seen much of it, just to be completely honest with you, but like I basically just grew up seeing partnership in every sense of the word.

Speaker 2 20:45

No, they definitely yeah, even after they got divorced, it was like they were always 10 toes down about making sure that I was good, um, and making sure that I was gonna be okay, and whoever needed to do what did what they had to do. So I can't even say it was 50 50. It was like whoever had the capacity did it and it it.

Open Communication Key in Relationships

Speaker 2 21:03

You know, sometimes, and we talked about uh, we talked about this in our relationship as well the 30, 70, the 60, 40, sometimes I got 10 and sometimes you got to do 90 and it's flipped, and I think that my parents, for the most part, did a really good job at giving each other grace with that for a certain amount of time. So, like that was, I wouldn't even say that that was my expectation coming into a relationship, because it wasn't, it wasn't conscious, it was just like this is what I thought marriage was it plays in the background of your mind and I think for a lot of people, like what a relationship, what a partnership, what a marriage means, is usually reflected by what they had or what they didn't have.

Speaker 2 21:44

you know, and in this particular case I saw it work with my parents and I wanted to do it. And then the second part there is. You know, we talk a lot about the invisible load, but for me it felt more like an unspoken load. So it's like what? What helped me was I know you don't know how to do this, because I just figured out that I had to do this but if I say nothing, nothing's going to happen. And I can't get mad at you for like one thing about me. I hate it when people get mad at me for, like, not being able to read their mind. I don't know what you're thinking.

Speaker 2 22:17

I got 10 million things happening right now, save my marriage on a weekly basis and I know from my, my friendships and my girlfriends that that's not a common quality within women. Like women like to look at you, know the small details and stuff like that I'm I'm not as great at those things as I thought I was. Let me tell you why is because, like things will happen with my friends like you didn't know, like you ain't tell me. Like I don't, I don't know, I don't know. Like I, I don't know what's going on. And I really value I'm a very direct person and I expect people to be direct with me.

Speaker 2 22:53

Um, and it's not like even like an aggressive thing, but it's like I really don't be knowing what's going on.

Speaker 2 22:57

I'm in the clouds, I'm daydreaming and I'm kind of, you know, in my own space.

Speaker 2 23:02

So if you don't tell me that there's something that is concerning you, that's hurting you, that's bothering you, it's going to take me a little bit longer to figure out.

Speaker 2 23:10

And I try to extend that same grace to the people that I care about. So, like, even with care, like if something's going on, I'm like, babe, it's not a big deal right now, but I'm feeling some type of way about this and if we don't change it, I think it's going to turn into something, and I feel like I've pretty much been like that for a while and I can't say I've been like that the whole time, but I've always had qualities of speaking my mind, you know, in relationships so, like Kira and I don't often get to a place where I'm frustrated about him not showing up in a certain way, because I already told him like I give you, I give you grace, and if I need to nudge and be like, hey, babe, I think I think we should do this, because I'm feeling this type of way and you don't never you don't never like snap, you don't never like make me feel bad about my feelings, even if it's ridiculous, like it's always a conversation.

Speaker 2 23:59

So, um, I think what saved us was that the invisible load isn't so invisible is because we talk about things I'll talk to you about when I'm overwhelmed, I'll ask you whether we're doing too much I'll tell you why I want to do certain things, and then we make those decisions together for the most part I think, damn, that's so good. Man, I didn't realize that's how we work until you said it out loud I mean, I didn't realize it until we had this conversation and I had to think about it.

Speaker 1 24:24

We got one of these unspoken rules in our relationship. You tell me if you don't feel this way, because it's the way I feel.

Responsibility and Communication in Relationships

Speaker 1 24:31

If you don't explicitly express the way that you feel, if it doesn't get resolved or if it doesn't get attended to, you have the right to be upset, but you don't have the right to treat me a certain way because you're upset. We both educators in the education. If your student didn't learn, it's never the student's fault. It means you didn't do a good enough job teaching them. And I think sometimes we, like I hear all the time why do I have to, why do I have to tell you?

Speaker 2 25:04

Because we're two separate humans, different people.

Speaker 1 25:06

You're not the main character in this relationship.

Speaker 2 25:09

Like you're not the emotional epicenter of the relationship say that first part again you are not the main. Yeah, you're not the main character.

Speaker 1 25:16

But that's I get why people think that, though it's and it's not even all the way people fall, it's the way marriage is framed, and marriage is framed so ridiculously from the way that it actually works, like the way they tell us it works, versus the way it actually works. It's not like that. It's not about you and it's not about me. It's about the collective. It's about the collective, and love and partnership are two different things. They don't have nothing to do with each other, but those are two elements of your relationship, and the love part is so easy. It's so easy. Nobody divorces because they love the other person too much. They usually divorce because the other person was their definition of a shitty partner. Partnership is hard. Partnership requires you to repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over again. Now it's different when you have a partner who does not care genuinely will not change.

Speaker 2 26:08

That's an entirely different conversation.

Speaker 1 26:11

A dysfunctional relationship like that. Your relationship doesn't work because it won't work. It can't work that way with one person doing the work.

Speaker 2 26:18

Both people need to be on board. One person can't save a sinking ship in this situation?

Speaker 3 26:22

Hell nah, it just can't, no matter how bad you want it. Nah, hell, nah.

Speaker 1 26:27

But I think we do a good job of that. So, with the invisible load, one thing Noemi introduced to our relationship a long time ago and I hated it when she did it and I probably talked about it here before it's a calendar man. We got a shared family calendar. I'm a person I have add. You know what I'm saying. I, my brain, does not work like most people's brains. I, if I see too many things and too many touch points, I shut down, I'm not going, I'm just gonna be like I can't do it, I'm overloaded.

Speaker 2 26:57

I'm gonna put it down, I'm gonna walk away and I'm the opposite I walk away from the things that don't serve me and I'm probably a tad bit OCD and I have anxiety and I plan super tasks every speaking of which I'm gonna go off on a tangent just a little bit. I asked chat GPT to roast me, but it was like tell me all the things that I don't want to hear about myself and don't hold back.

Speaker 2 27:19

I don't suggest you do that unless you have, um, a mother named rose exantis because nobody can hurt my feelings, being in a haitian family and having a mom with a million sisters. Um, but it rose me and one of the biggest things it was like you talk about, rest and simmer down. When was the last?

Speaker 1 27:37

time you sat down not too much on me, not too much.

Speaker 2 27:39

And then I said I'm a black woman, can you speak to me?

Speaker 2 27:44

you, whoa, you just told it, don't hold back now you want permission I told chat chibi, I was like whoa there, talk to me as a black woman who's an older sister that really needs tough love, but but massage it. And then it gave me what I, you know, expected. But I did read the the hard one, like three times. It took me two days to like really just sit and read it, and one of the things was just like I do too much, yeah, I plan everything to a tease, like you don't even sit in the present because you're constantly thinking about the future. Yeah, that doesn't work in real life all the time, but with our personalities it kind of puts us somewhere in the middle. You know what, though?

Speaker 1 28:19

like this is another thing I learned since we have an invisible load conversation, because invisible load, there's a definition, specific definition of it, um, but there's also like that talks about tasks and logistics within a relationship. But there's another piece that's just about responsibilities and duties within a relationship. When you're married to a certain personality type, there are things that you have to do to deal with me that nobody will ever see. Yeah, you know, and and you're not to a certain personality type, there are things that you have to do to deal with me that nobody will ever see yeah you know and and you're not going to get special credit for it's just par for the course, that's.

Speaker 1 28:48

I don't know what they are. That's why I just look at you. I have to be like thank you, babe. You're like for what? Just just thank you, because? I don't know what you're dealing with with me, but I'm sure it's something, but like.

Speaker 2 28:59

The devil. You know the devil. Come on man, it's a saying.

Speaker 1 29:08

You should know this Better than anything.

Speaker 2 29:10

You From the south, the better you know. I mean, the devil you know Is better than the devil you don't In this situation.

Speaker 1 29:15

I'm the devil.

Speaker 2 29:16

Okay, let's move on. And he's not even that serious Like. He just likes these dramatic moments. He should have been an actor, go ahead you forgot what you would say.

Speaker 1 29:27

That's why I can't be an actor.

Speaker 1 29:30

I know that you don't rest, I know that you don't sit down and that's why I gently nudge, but I gently nudge as opposed to being angry at you about it or throwing it in your face all the time, and I think that that's a hard thing to practice for a lot of people. But when somebody's overburdened with a task in the relationship or a duty, I think to me the primary goal is how do we make this easier for you, primarily, and like secondarily, how do we make this easier for the collective? But if I ask you that and you're like, and your response is why do you have to ask just do something. Yeah, that's not helpful. Because if I do something and it's not helpful to you or it doesn't meet your criteria for you know it doesn't it doesn't meet that need. Now I'm getting like negative feedback. Now I'm getting oh damn, come on, therapist brain, what's it called?

Speaker 1 30:26

negative reinforcement okay and the more negative reinforcement I get. My brain is designed to not want to do that thing anymore, so I'd rather ask you what it is you need than try to guess and get it wrong. And now you're frustrated with me, not only for not doing the thing and meeting the need. You're frustrated with me not only for not doing the thing and meeting the need. You're frustrated with me for getting it wrong.

Speaker 1 30:45

And the more I feel like I can't get it right, the less confidence I have in trying to predict things. I know it's easy to just blame one person in a relationship for these things, but the reason our relationships don't work is because we don't have the duality. We don't. We don't really institute a duality of the conversation. It's not two people's fault. It's two people's responsibility to make it work. And we don't frame it that way for some reason.

Speaker 2 31:08

Let's workshop through this really quick, because I know that there were We've definitely. You hear that it's a plane, but they never hear it. We always be like my bad.

Speaker 3 31:19

I know.

Speaker 2 31:23

Y'all never, but they never hear it. We always be like my bad um. But the reason I said I wanted to workshop through it is because, like I didn't always have that response, there were definitely time. It's louder now they disrespectful.

Speaker 1 31:30

Let's just wait till this journey pass.

Speaker 2 31:31

I'm gonna get some water so I was talking about um, having us workshop through that, because I didn't always feel that way. There were definitely points where just give me a second to get back in that place, cause it's been a while. It's been a while since we've been there. I think it was around the time that we were actively going to therapy, where you know I would need help and you would help help in the way that I wanted you to help.

Speaker 2 31:54

And, while I understood, like maybe I did hold on too tight to the responsibility, but I think sometimes, because I'm a little bit more anxious and because I spend a lot more time thinking about things, there's a reason why things happen this way. You know what I mean. Let's say you're like it doesn't matter what pajamas the kids wear to school, is pajama day, but it's Christmas pajama day and now they have school with pajamas that don't even have Christmas ornaments on them, when we could have workshopped this through, like together, and gotten to gotten us to that place. So I think where a lot of the hiccups come in relationships is that communication piece. It's like I want to help you, but I need you to spend a little bit of extra time walking me through what that help looks like. You know, and I think the the the problem that I had at that point was well, if you cared as much as I did, you wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 32:48

And I think a lot yeah.

Speaker 2 32:50

And I think a lot of people associate tasks with care. You know what I mean. So I think that there is a happy medium. Maybe it doesn't have to be. You know these Christmas pajamas that literally have Santa on them, but these are red and green and they still match.

Speaker 2 33:05

So I think, like for for me, I had to get to a place where I didn't blame you for not being as on top of things as I was, because, especially with respect to the kids, they don't need two of the same kinds of parent. You know, and I think, like that, that's really hard because you know whether you came from a single parent household or where you like. If you're in a situation where you're the primary parent and you deal a lot more with what the kids need day to day, like I get why that's hard to let go of. But I think, as you know, we're speaking to people who are married you you have to figure out what can you keep on your plate that you're not going to resent your partner for, and what is something that you can give to them, even if it's not perfect. That's going to make that person feel like they're contributing and you not feeling overwhelmed, and that's going to look different for every relationship. It's going to take time for you to discover what that looks like and with Kira and I, that has changed about 15 times in the past two years.

Speaker 2 34:02

I went from being a full-time lawyer to like I know everybody hates to say stay-at-home mom, but like, let's just be real. Like I'm a stay-at-home mom and I'm a mompreneur, but I'm a stay-at-home mom, you know I'm not paying bills. I don like wives go to their husbands and they're like babe, I don't got it, I don't got the mortgage. I'm so glad you ain't do that.

Speaker 3 34:28

I want to look at you like come on I didn't do it because I know you would embarrass me on the internet. Chill, chill, I wouldn't I would not.

Shared Responsibility in Relationship Dynamics

Speaker 2 34:31

You wouldn't because you knew it was a skit, but if you didn't know that a camera was up, you would have been like what the hell are you talking about? Your broke ass, don't know, not not that, but but on a more serious note, I feel like with every relationship you have to figure out what those things look like for your relationship, and with care you know, we're constantly figuring it out. We don't like having these conversations.

Speaker 1 34:55

These conversations blow me I just want to go to dinner and be winding down, eat a crab boil and just have a good time and not talk about logistics. No, I hate it, but hey we got young kids.

Speaker 2 35:10

Viscerally, we are raising these kids like with that, with help, but really by ourselves. We're solo entrepreneurs. We got this big ass mortgage. We got kids in private school they an hour away. Like we got a big ass mortgage. We got kids in private school they an hour away. Like we got a lot of stuff going on and unfortunately we don't have the luxury of just being like happy-go-lucky and everything's so great. Like we're gonna have to have these uncomfortable conversations and if we really want the the the plate to be somewhat equal or feel somewhat equal, you got to have those uncomfortable conversations all the time you know, I tell my seven-year-old daughter because she, like most seven-year-olds, just don't be eating sometimes and then she's like my stomach hurts.

Speaker 1 35:52

And I always ask her did you eat? And she says no, because I didn't like the food. And I tell her baby, you're a big girl now. Eating isn't about you liking the food. It's about you giving your body the fuel it needs to push through the day.

Speaker 1 36:05

Your relationship ain't about you liking the conversation. It's about you giving your partnership the fuel that it needs to push throughout the day. You have to have those conversations and figure out what they look like and from my side, if that's your accountability piece, my side is, I'm crazy nonchalant compared to her. Like she just talked about the PJs not being Christmas and I was like you didn't even know it was pajama day.

Speaker 2 36:29

I don't care.

Speaker 1 36:31

But you know what Two things I don't do. I don't make her feel stupid for caring more than I do. I don't have to announce that I don't care just because I feel that way. Oh, my bad lie. Three things. And the third thing is, um, just because I don't understand how important it is to her, that that doesn't mean that I stand in the way of progress. So I'll be like, hey, I don't understand why this is so important, but it seems important to you. So what? What should I do? Do you need me to run the target real quick? Go get some pajamas. Do I need this?

Speaker 2 36:59

I need he's so good with that man but I'm not the logistics guy.

Speaker 1 37:02

I'm not gonna plan the stuff because I only do the planning because we're in a relationship together.

Speaker 1 37:07

Baby, if I was a single man with these kids, I wouldn't plan nothing everything would be fly by the seat of our pants and I can't have a gun of logistics to my head 24 7, because that's the way that my partner works. That ain't the way I work and it's about the both of us, not just one person. So my thing is I might not I can help with logistics. I might not commandeer logistics, but my piece of taking over the undetectable load or whatever is, I will, I'll do the runs.

Speaker 2 37:32

You need me to make the run, I'll make the run can we give them a practical example of what this looks like?

Speaker 1 37:37

I have one, I can't think of one. So if you got I got, the go for it.

Speaker 2 37:39

I got the holiday pictures, the Christmas pictures. You didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 1 37:43

No.

Speaker 2 37:43

You didn't know what color he was wearing.

Speaker 1 37:45

I forgot about them until you just said something we didn't know nothing.

Speaker 2 37:47

So one thing that I've learned about Keir like I love the logistics and the planning and like does this red go with that red and what does the background look like? And blah. And with Kier, like the less you tell him the better.

Speaker 3 38:00

Because now he's stressed Like it's not exciting to him.

Speaker 2 38:03

It's stressful, so like, basically, what I end up doing is I'll do logistics, I'll call Bonnie, I'll get the family photographer.

Speaker 2 38:11

I'll call the photographer, I'll get the outfits ready, I'll tell him I need you to dress up and we're wearing red. And through experience and I know sometimes, especially with, especially with, like you know, these kind of family situations, it's really hard to let go. Kier shows up every time. If Kier only has to worry about himself, he good, he's good, but trying to see whether the kids like what you don't know.

Speaker 2 38:31

The invisible part of that was I bought like three pairs of shoes because the kids were in between sizes and it was just like if I asked you babe, can you get this color red shoes, but she wears this size, but she might wear this size. So you got to read the reviews to see if they run small or run big. It would never happen and like for you it was more like can you pack the bags and make sure everything is in the car? We need to get there by 8, 30 or whatever. Can you be on time? Like playing to your partner's strengths instead of trying to get them to be something that they're not, has been the best thing for me, and I think that they, just because the qualities that he has aren't the same as mine, doesn't mean they're better or worse punishing me for not being exactly.

Speaker 2 39:11

And then finding how helpful the qualities of your partner can be. So my thing is, I can plan, but day of I'm a wreck, I am stressed, I am overwhelmed, I turn into much.

Speaker 1 39:23

That's where day of everything crazy? Where?

Speaker 2 39:27

care, care, care. Has a way of like chaos excites him. He's like how can, how can I make something out of nothing in? There, I got it, it's no problem so we just got into a place where he also knows. He's like don't bother knowing me on a day of she. If she hates her makeup, she won't be pissed for the rest of the way, like it ain't, I don't try to hop in a way to make sure I look useful.

Speaker 1 39:52

No, stay out of her way so she can do what she need to do. I learned that. But also I think you just touched on something. I just poke your boob. No, oh, I meant to. Yeah, also, I think it goes touched on something I just poked your boob.

Speaker 1 40:01

No, oh, I meant to yeah, also, I think it goes back to preconceived notions, understanding that both men and women carry a great deal of gender bias. A great deal of gender bias. So I don't attribute it like oh she's. She's being anxious and hyper aroused and hyper aware and overly critical and dissatisfied. That's just the nature of a woman. Like, I don't do that to her and she oh he's nonchalant. I got to do everything myself because he don't care about nothing. He only cares about his ego and himself. Because that's the nature of a man.

Mindset, Bias, and Shared Growth

Speaker 1 40:36

Like, when you walk in with those attitudes sometimes and we all carry them, so don't feel bad about it. But when you walk in with those attitudes, you'll find that you made a decision of who somebody is before they, before you even became open to giving them a chance to surprise you. So I don't walk in with that when she's doing that and she's she. She happens to care. If it's glenn, I don't even know what glam means for real, but like I don't, I just don't care about those things as much as her, and that's okay. I'm not gonna make her feel bad for it in the exchange that she doesn't make me feel bad for not caring as much and I think that we ended up having the most beautiful.

Speaker 1 41:11

It was an amazing photo shoot. Should we land this plane?

Speaker 2 41:14

yeah, I was about to tell you I have. I have two questions for me um, just to, just to help us land the plane all right um I like landing the plane as future dr cure phd, because we're speaking it into existence, that's so much student on that.

Speaker 1 41:30

True, that's. I got enough.

Speaker 2 41:32

I don't need no more care gains, mental health expert and parenting extraordinaire tall relationship six foot one, 205 pound, well read, well traveled, well moisturized I can't even remember what I was about to say that's what happens.

Speaker 1 41:49

It's just so fun, all right um, but like what two things?

Speaker 2 41:54

what's something that you feel like couples can do to initiate this conversation, because my fear is it's gonna be just get out of my way or help me. You know what I mean. But like figuring out, like I think for us so I'm answering the question before I ask but I think for us, just with respect to the kids you and I have kind of settled into like specific roles, like if it's an emergency doctor's appointment, daddy's going to pick up and go. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 42:25

You know what I mean. But if it's like you're back from the doctor's appointment, you want to cuddle and you know you want the green straw and the green yogurt and not the yellow, and I can do that. That example just blew me which is why you're not that parent that just pissed me off.

Speaker 1 42:39

Which is which?

Speaker 2 42:40

is why, once you come back, daddy's gonna go get his alone time. And now you know what I mean. Like we've kind of settled yeah, we've settled into and then the same thing with, like I mean, we don't really argue anymore, but like the same thing with, just like difficult conversations, like I know that you know you might be somebody that's going to feel a little bit more strongly about the situation in the beginning and I'm somebody that needs to think about it a little bit more and I feel, feel like you respect my time. You know the time that I need and I don't really hold your initial feelings about something against you.

Speaker 2 43:13

And I guess, like, how can couples kind of get to a place where they respect their differences and they've been able to use the differences whether in their personality, the way that they handle conflict, the way that they handle kids to benefit them as a whole? Because I think the problem sometimes is like when I used to get upset with you. I would get upset because I felt like you weren't helping me be the mother that I wanted to be to my kids, because you were standing in the way in some way. You know what I mean Versus now, really, I mean it's a dramatized feeling.

Speaker 1 43:42

But it's some type of variant of that. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 43:46

And now it's kind of like I feel like our kids get two totally different things from the two of us and I value what you give to our kids and I don't want to stand in the way of that. So how can I like set daddy up for success, like little things, like I know, like you've been working a lot for the past couple of weeks, us doing the 100.

Speaker 3 44:04

That was so special.

Speaker 2 44:07

But the reason why I did that is because I want to show the kids are like daddy might be working, but look at why he's working. Look at all of the things like what is it, I don't know basketball turns, it's like an alley or whatever for context, I'm almost at a million followers on instagram and we're almost at a hundred thousand subscribers here, yeah.

Speaker 1 44:25

So, uh, they did a nice little commemorative wall. Yeah, we did cards, we did signs and everything.

Speaker 2 44:31

But I do that because I mean I hit 500 subscribers, but I don't need that. You know what I mean? Because the kids are always with me and we check the, we check the numbers every day every day, multiple times a day, but for them, they don't really know what you do. They're not.

Speaker 1 44:46

They're not finances their whole lives. They don't really get it.

Speaker 2 44:49

Granted, they're young, but it's like doing things like that, it's just like they're proud of you because daddy did this thing. They may not see it, but I feel like, how can we what? What piece of advice can we give to couples to help them kind of get to a place where they're not looking at the relationship, the parenting, whatever, as like their individual journey, but a shared one?

Speaker 1 45:13

well, we got to support each other in order for it to work. That's a tremendous and a nuanced question.

Speaker 2 45:19

Yeah, let me think about it. I guess what's maybe the first step? I got it. I got it. Let me fall back. He got it.

Speaker 1 45:24

No, I think I can answer it, so I it ain't going to be the answer you think. I think it comes. The first step is working on your mindset. The first thing that I think it would be prudent of you to work on is your gender bias. What attitudes or thoughts, or just overall dispositions, do you carry toward men and women based on what you think of them as a whole, based on what you think men's social responsibilities are or women's social responsibilities are, because it triples down into the household that's going back to another episode that we did about assuming positive intent in the relationship yeah, you gotta earn that yeah, all I'm just telling you all of these episodes.

Speaker 2 46:06

we're pretty much saying the same thing in different ways, but like these are real nuggets that have worked for us.

Speaker 1 46:12

So other people and other people.

Speaker 2 46:14

So even if it's not this episode, that's okay. Look at the other ones. We all in here dealing with a lot of the same things. We just have language. That's the only difference is we have the language to say what we are all feeling right now.

Speaker 1 46:29

And go get some therapy, man. Please go get some therapy. Go to therapy. It don't matter if your partner not going to therapy.

Speaker 3 46:34

So what it?

Speaker 2 46:34

does not matter, so what.

Speaker 1 46:36

Therapy ain't about them, it's about you. It's about everything you've experienced in your life to this day, how it's affected you, how it impacts your thoughts, how it impacts your beliefs, how it impacts your feelings, how it impacts your behaviors directly and indirectly. Everything you see is through the lens of your mind. Your mind is so important.

Speaker 2 46:55

One thing that I love about Keir, that I think that I'm rubbing off on him, is that taking common phrases and then kind of moving them around so that they make more sense for where he is in life and I think people say this all the time I'm walking away from things that don't serve me cool. But what are you walking towards? You know what I mean, and I feel like if we take the emphasis away from like the things that aren't good, towards the things that are like, okay that are okay, with the potential to be great, that, like you were saying, it's about your mindset, it's about your biases and it's about shifting your perspective.

Speaker 2 47:29

Your perspective is all right, this is good, but it can be great, so I'm gonna pour into this a little bit more. Versus that's toxic, so let me just run away. Where are you running, sis? Where are you going?

Speaker 1 47:40

or bro where you going, bro. We're alive because because they be running, man and we be, we all be running. We be running too.

Speaker 2 47:48

That's the only thing we know how to do. But walking towards things that serve us, that's hard, because how do you recognize that? How do you trust yourself that you're making the right decisions? You don't know where you're going. The destination ain't right there.

Speaker 1 48:01

But we're both going off on tangents. We really do have to land this plane. All right, y'all, so that's going to be it for us today. Make sure that you hit the subscribe button so that we know you family for real. Also, make sure that you hit the notification button so that you can know of all of our posts as soon as they post and also follow us on instagram follow us on tiktok, if it still exists, when y'all see this tiktok. Well, instagram might exist instagram will, but tiktok, tiktok's going away in january, but also follow my vlog.

Speaker 1 48:28

Follow noemi's. Follow noemi's vlog. Follow noemi's blog sub stack.

Speaker 2 48:35

Yeah, we'll put all the things, all the things down below.

Speaker 1 48:38

But hey, real, real, live man. This is we. We love this community that we built. We love this audience. We love platform. We love the opportunity to share our mistakes as we make them in real time. We don't feel no way about them and we hope the only way that you feel about them is good. So until next time.