Improving Communication in Relationships

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of the sit down talk podcast, where the conversation is like a pair of cheap ass leggings Transparent. My name is kia and I'm new amy and we welcome you to a very special episode today, because we're diving into something that's close to our hearts. It's really all about reflection. It's about growth and those little things we're working on and not just be better for ourselves, but to actually be better for each other.

Speaker 2 0:23

Right, we're opening up about our own journeys, those personal improvements that we're working on and not just be better for ourselves, but to actually be better for each other. Right, we're opening up about our own journeys, those personal improvements that we're striving for, and I'll be sharing some of my reflections, especially on being more present and listening more deeply, for sure and I'm not holding back either.

Speaker 1 0:37

Y'all, I'm about to talk about my efforts to express my emotions more clearly and manage my stress in a healthier way. It's all about growing together and not apart.

Speaker 2 0:48

So, whether you're on your own journey of self-improvement or navigating the path with your partner, this is for you. Let's explore what it means to evolve, understand and love a little bit better.

Speaker 1 0:57

Yeah, grab your favorite spot on the couch. Yeah, let's get real, let's get deep and, as always, let's keep it perfectly and perfect. Here we go, enjoy the episode.

Speaker 3 1:08

So today our conversation is really around a reflection that she and I had about open dialogue and what that means. If you're on these here internets, you done heard people say communication is key a million times. But communication is just a word. It doesn't really spell out what that means or what it looks like on a daily basis, or even like how to do that in your own life, because everybody doesn't communicate the same way and everyone doesn't receive communication the same way, and one thing that we talked about was being honest and vulnerable about what I could improve on or what we both could improve on in our relationships.

Speaker 2 1:50

I think you brought up the topic originally, but when I was thinking about it it was like, a lot of times we're in relationships whether it's friendships, romantic relationships, marriages, whatever and we're in these relationships with this thing in our head about the things that we can improve on, the things that we can do better, and a lot of times I've noticed that those things are more internal than they are, like things that our partner told us about. One, because that's an uncomfortable conversation to begin with, like, hey, guy, you're not doing this right. And two, just that criticism isn is it something that's always welcome. What if we had the conversation about what we can improve on with our partner, so that they can tell us yeah, you know, you might want to fix that.

Speaker 3 2:34

Tighten up a little bit.

Speaker 2 2:35

Or not, I don't even know what you're talking about. You tripping bruv. That conversation of course goes in line with communication, but I think it's also just like having a I guess not more realistic, but having a more direct or truthful honest, that's not the word but like making sure that what you're doing makes sense for your relationship yeah, making sure that you're not just moving in a direction that isn't really going to yield anything for you all. That was a therapist.

Speaker 3 3:08

She and I had a conversation one time and I was talking about what I could do to be better. I'm like man, I need to tighten up on these things and she looked at me and was like do you feel that way? Because I don't feel that way. And I realized in that moment that the problem that I had was something that I ruminated on in my own brain, but I never really shared it with her and verify whether or not it was ever a problem for her. So I was creating a problem that wasn't a problem anywhere outside my own mind.

Speaker 2 3:34

How did you feel when I was just like nah, that's not an issue that I thought you needed to work on.

Speaker 3 3:41

I think in that moment needed to work on. I think in that moment I felt like, well, if I'm making these issues that aren't issues issues in this instance, maybe I'm doing it in other places too. So we decided no, that was that sounded like the uh how they say people be on a podcast. No like, but it's the way that you said.

Speaker 2 4:03

You said I'm making issues. I don't know you. You said issues in three different ways, three different times in the same sentence, but I knew exactly what you was talking about.

Speaker 3 4:13

I love that I'm making things a problem when they don't have to be so and you internalized it clearly yeah, absolutely, because it's not like we all just feel so free to share everything we feel that we can improve upon with our partners.

Speaker 2 4:29

It's just so funny because you brought that up and I don't remember that conversation. I mean, I remember it vaguely but I do remember it feeling like a profound moment in our relationship and I'm surprised we never revisited that before this, like before this sit down talk yeah like we never sat down and be like okay, well, this happened.

Speaker 2 4:47

What else could we be making into issues in our minds without kind of checking in with our partner? I'm kind of I don't know. I'm a little bit disappointed that, like, we're just now having that conversation it's so much stuff.

Speaker 3 4:59

A relationship ain't just the love that y'all share between each other, it's also all the stuff. How many things did we discuss this week? How many hard conversations that we had this week that ain't got nothing to do with us so many. Yeah, yeah, getting back to us is usually like the last thing on the list I feel like we unfairly blame people sometimes for how an individual or how collectively the marriage comes last and we don't always blame the circumstances and the logistics and all the stuff. And we got a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 5:31

We got a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3 5:33

So we came up with this exercise that I mean this is going to be our little marriage check-in.

Speaker 2 5:37

Kira came up with it. I was just on board. I'm going to give you credit.

Speaker 3 5:41

Appreciate it. This is our little marriage check-in that we're just going to do on camera, because I thought it'd be a dope exercise to just name three things that we both individually feel that we could improve on and see whether or not it's even an issue for the other person.

Speaker 2 5:56

Yeah, Okay, can I be super transparent? What's up? So we knew that this topic was going to come up and we gave each other space and time to think about three things. I'm not going to speak for you, but for me. It was really hard to pick three things.

Speaker 3 6:09

It was kind of hard for me too.

Speaker 2 6:10

Why was it hard for you?

Speaker 3 6:11

It was hard because I feel like I do a lot of those things. I just want to improve on them. So it's not things that I completely neglect or things that I always overlook, it's just things that I feel like I can do better in Same, yeah, same.

Speaker 2 6:27

I think, like you know, I say a lot about how I'm in a place where I'm in therapy. I mean, I'm still in therapy and I'm doing the work. And I'm not just doing the work on myself, I'm doing the work in my marriage as well. So you know, just thinking about this, like you said, it wasn't necessarily things like I knew I wasn't doing, that I should do. It's things that I'm actively working on, that I know that I need more work in doing.

Speaker 3 6:50

Well, I think, because once I share them with you, I don't know if it's actually going to be a thing you never know. Yeah, and I keep it a buck with you in my response, but also it can be a little. My bias won't always allow me to see that I need improvement in the space that I'm already trying hard to be better at. If I came into this relationship at a negative two with this thing and now I'm at a one, to me that one feeling like a 30 today, boss, I feel like it just has more weight, but also my mind tricks me into believing that maybe I'm better at this thing than I actually am because I have come so far. I know we were in the middle of a conversation, but we had to switch our mics real quick. We were having some technical difficulties. So if you are on YouTube and we look different now, we just we just moved the mics.

Speaker 3 7:36

Yeah, we had to do some stuff. I don't remember what we were talking about, though.

Speaker 2 7:39

We oh, I know where we left off. We we oh, I know where we left off. We were talking about how you, we was like I got three things. I'm like you got three things.

Speaker 3 7:45

Oh yeah, I got two. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 7:48

Well, since you have two, why don't we start with yours and then maybe, as you're talking, I will find one.

Speaker 3 7:53

So my first thing is one thing that I can do that I can hate if I had to do and it's hard for me to ask you to do those things, or if I know you have to do those things, like even some things with the kids. If I'm with the kids, I need to go out, we need to be outside, we need to be doing stuff. I can't sit in a house with my kids. They will drive me crazy, I'll end up yelling, I'll end up being irritable, I'll end up being that dad.

Speaker 3 8:25

I do not want to be true, and sometimes I got things to do and knowing you'll be like I'll just watch the kids. I'm like you sure she'll be like, yeah, I'm like, well, I'll just do this, this. She says, no, I got it okay. Well, let me take care of this before, babe, like I got it, don't worry about it. Or I just won't go at all because I hate watching them in the house. Or if I have to be with them all day, I have to put my mind in a certain place. That's just not your reality.

Speaker 2 8:51

You don't trip off of that and I'm the opposite Like I'm most comfortable and at ease when they're home, because I don't ever take them out.

Speaker 3 9:01

That's such a brain thing with me Because even our manager she be answering emails and doing logistics. I hate answering emails.

Speaker 1 9:08

I'm never going to email her. I hate doing logistics. I'm like ugh.

Speaker 3 9:12

She loves it. But my mind can't process sometimes when people absolutely love doing something that I absolutely hate. So sometimes I end up thinking for you and being like nah, she ain't gonna, she ain't gonna want to do that, I'm gonna just go ahead and do it myself. Yeah, is that accurate, or is it not?

Speaker 2 9:29

That is accurate, but it only became a thing for me like real talk recently.

Speaker 3 9:37

True man.

Speaker 2 9:38

When we had the conversation about like driving the kids back and forth, and you were just like you know, you hate it and blah, blah, blah and I was like no, no, I said it feels like it's a lot yeah, I can't school is like an hour away from my house and the commute is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 9:51

It's a whole thing.

Speaker 2 9:52

But it is a whole thing and I've taken on the responsibility of picking them up and chopping them off the majority of the time which I hate, because we split those duties our entire time together as parents.

Speaker 3 10:04

But now, because of the dynamics of the house, if I don't have time to work, or if I'm driving an hour there and an hour back, and then I have to work for the rest of the day, we're not going to make no money.

Navigating Relationship Dynamics and Adjustments

Speaker 2 10:15

And then for me you know I naturally wake up early anyway, so it's like I wake up at 530 in the morning. I would wake up early in the morning, even when he was taking the kids to school, and my thing was I'm up for no reason now. So, like, I'm up, I do hair, I do breakfast, I do all the things, and then I'm just kind of sitting there. So now, like for me, it gives me purpose because I get to wake up. I do my own thing. I need routine.

Speaker 3 10:38

Creature of habit.

Speaker 2 10:45

I'm at, I'm nice with it. He really is. You know, when we were having that conversation, he was just like I know that this is a lot, like this is too much. And I was like, well, and I remember I let you speak because, like, I didn't agree but I wanted to see where you went with it. By the time we ended the conversation it was clear that way Like it is a lot, but it doesn't feel like it's too much. You know what I mean. And that was the first time that I noticed well, not the first time that that's the first time where I put it together. I'm like, oh, you do that sometimes, like you do internalize situations that might make you uncomfortable and you assume that I'll make that person feel the same way. And this was the first time. I was like, oh, I see that this is a pattern.

Speaker 3 11:27

So for me to say that that's accurate, it is accurate but it's only recently that I noticed that it was a thing, yeah, and I felt the light click on in your head when I said it. And sometimes for me, it's also predictive, because our relationship is very cyclical.

Speaker 3 11:39

We've been going through the same 20 things cyclically for the last 10 years, annoying each other yeah, only thing that changes, like the variables we the same issues we had with our apartments, the same issues we had with the house, like money issues when we was broke, same money issues doing all right, you know, and for me I try to predict it sometimes, because what's sustainable for two weeks I've seen it before it's not sustainable for four months. So it's trying to bridge the gap between guessing how you feel and trying to get ahead of something that I know in the past has not been an issue in the first month that we have to do it, but as time goes along it becomes more of an issue and then we have to change everything, because you don't mind changing, and I do.

Speaker 2 12:25

I don't think there's anything wrong with that mindset. I think that it only becomes a problem when you refuse to accept the other person's reality 100.

Speaker 3 12:36

You know what I mean because.

Speaker 2 12:38

I think, like even us having that conversation, it was really helpful for me because I got to see where you were at with it. Because I kind of do same thing, like if something's not a big deal for me, I I automatically assume it's not a big deal for you. And I think, just in certain things in our relationship or with the kids or with the business, like we're not doing everything together like we used to, like it was always 50, 50 with Kira and and I if one person takes the kids, to school.

Speaker 3 13:04

You know you can't say 50 50 on the internet hey, it's a, it's a buzzword.

Speaker 2 13:10

Somebody's ears just perked up and they about to internalize our whole conversation and regurgitate it back to us and it's not even what we're talking about real man never goes.

Speaker 2 13:18

No, really, let me not get. Let me not get get off topic. Hold on, stop. But yeah, we're so used to everything being equal. You know equal responsibilities, like if someone cooks, somebody washes the dishes, if someone drives in the morning, somebody else drives in the afternoon, somebody does breakfast, the other person handles dinner, and I think that worked for a really long time in our relationship. But that's just not the dynamics of our relationship anymore. It changed man. It makes and this is where I remember you and I did butt heads.

Speaker 2 13:51

It was an area that we were clearly not on the same page with when the conversation kind of came up and I was like I don't think that you should do pickup or drop off anymore because, sorry, I'm a little congested, it's allergy season, so if I sound a little bit different, that's why. But going back to what I was saying, you edit all day, you shoot all day, you think about content all day, you're on podcasts, you're on meetings, you're writing a book, you're doing a lot of things. What I noticed in the past couple of months is, after you go back and drop off the kids, I'm kind of like looking for something to do, I'm trying to fill the time and I'm like that doesn't make sense to me. It's not like. You know, I can edit, but I don't edit your stuff. You know what I mean.

Navigating Adjustment and Independence

Speaker 2 14:29

Like I can do things but that's not my primary responsibility. If I'm up anyway, why not take that off of your plate, even if it's well? My role is a lot more family and kids focused and your role is a lot more work focused, so what if it's not split down the middle, as long as we're both getting what we need? You need time and I need purpose, and I feel like we found a way to make that work for now and if we have to adjust again, we will, because we have proof that if we ever have to adjust, we can adjust Of course and I think that goes back to what I just said it's the difference between the way that you and I conceptualize adjustments and how we deal with adjustments.

Speaker 3 15:11

You are fine with it, noemi can just. Oh, noemi rearranges rooms all the time, whatever position my room is in, if the bed and the desk are right there, that's kind of where it stays. I don't really I got issues with change like that and she doesn't. So for her it's like oh well, I'm not going to assume, but in my mind for you it's like well, when we need to adjust, we'll just do that. In my mind it's like we're doing adjusting again. Like it took me forever to get used to this. Now I got to get used to something else. How long are we going to have to do this until I got to change once again? And if you are listening to me and saying, duh, that's a part of adulthood, that's probably because that's something you don't struggle with as hard.

Speaker 3 15:55

But allow me to observe your life, for a day, wait till he finds what you struggle with, and I will find 200 things that you struggle with mightily that are easy for me and I probably you know I wouldn't want you to feel undermined in that, so just try to be open in these conversations.

Speaker 2 16:09

No, I love that you said that, because I know that you struggle with adjustment and I was trying to figure out, like, how do, if I can put an emotion to how like adjustments make me feel Like it's not even like I'm good with adjustments. It gives me a rush, like it's not even like I'm good with adjustments.

Speaker 3 16:25

It gives me a rush Like I love. So it's not just that you don't mind them, you love them, I like them.

Speaker 2 16:27

I hate it, man, because like I mean, think about it. I've moved so many times.

Speaker 3 16:32

I haven't moved ever.

Speaker 2 16:33

I have like if you just sit down and say, noemi, tell me about all the careers that you've ever had, they are not Like I've done it all.

Speaker 3 16:41

That's crazy. All mine are really related. They all fall in the same lane, all of yours are community facing. Like helping people serving.

Speaker 2 16:50

I've been a singer, I've worked in recording studios, I've been in film, I've been a lawyer, I've been a teacher and then, even within teaching, I've taught babies. I've taught elementary school and I taught high school. Like I listen, I do all the things. I can play instruments.

Speaker 3 17:05

I don't play nothing.

Speaker 2 17:08

I think that change and doing something new is something that's exciting for me. So anytime I have a chance to do something new, to shake up my routine, to learn a new skill, to figure out something new like, I genuinely enjoy that. And as a mom, my life is pretty redundant, you know what?

Speaker 3 17:28

I mean you think so, oh yeah, and as a married person, real talk, marriage is kind of predictable.

Speaker 2 17:33

It is. But being married to a social media influencer is different than just being married to I don't want to say regular person, because you're still regular, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 17:43

Like someone who is not an influencer.

Speaker 2 17:45

Someone who is not an influencer. Nothing about our marriage seems redundant, because sometimes our marriage is being on the red carpet somewhere in LA talking about our marriage. Sometimes our marriage is being on a TV show nationally.

Speaker 3 18:01

I think I'm speaking more about the day-to-day.

Speaker 2 18:03

But that is our day-to-day, but that is our day. We can get a call right now and say, you know, black love needs you to to be on the show. Or, like a couple years ago, uh, oprah wants to take your family on vacation. Like somebody said something. Like, like I said, I'll be minding my business and I'll be at home and they'll be like well, if that's the case, then I'm reading you wrong, because your life looks lit, because it is. It's a different thing every day. I don't know if you're gonna be here. I don't know if you're gonna be in new york. I don't know if you're gonna be on live tv. I don't know if you're gonna shoot a show. I don't know if you're gonna be in a podcast with somebody that I love and admire, or you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 18:37

Like our marriage is not the same every day I don't even put that in a category when I'm married, that's just my job but our job, your job, is our real life that's so. You're not an actor.

Speaker 2 18:50

I compartmentalize that differently, but it's also it's also different because you are the person doing the things.

Speaker 3 18:55

Yeah it's different when you're watching the person.

Speaker 2 18:58

Yeah, I'm the observer slash plus one plus. Like I'm the best friend sidekick that gets a ride like I'm, like we know that's lit.

Speaker 3 19:05

I'm sitting there trying to go over my lines, making sure I don't stumble in front of a hundred thousand people knowing me, it's just like oh, what we're wearing.

Speaker 2 19:12

Yeah, you know, and it's like it's. I think we just have two totally different experiences in our marriage because of the work that we do. Like this is fun to me. I get to be on a podcast with my husband talking about oh, like this is fun to me.

Speaker 3 19:23

I get to be on a podcast with my husband Talking about my relationship. This is fun. I enjoy this. This is everything that's different.

Speaker 2 19:26

But this is our check in, this is our Like couples therapy check in.

Speaker 3 19:31

You know what else? This is our.

Speaker 2 19:32

This is part of our marriage.

Speaker 3 19:33

You know what this, what else this is?

Speaker 2 19:35

What.

Speaker 3 19:35

This is a very good. It's your turn, okay. Thank you Slit.

Speaker 2 19:43

So my thing is, one thing that I've been working on is I don't know. I need to talk this through first, go ahead. So one of the things that I realized that I used to do is I used to do too much, I used to overdo things. I would like overly accommodating Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 20:01

Keep going Like I was overly accommodating, like I would like Kira's not going to like this, so let me go ahead and do this or overly accommodating to you emotionally, like if I felt like something would be overwhelming, I would go out of my way for you to not have to deal with that so that you would not be overwhelmed. And I realized I don't remember when, but I realized at some point that I was just doing I was too focused on you and your emotions and I had to fall back. And I'm like he's a grown man with his own emotions and he has to learn to deal with them. My job can't be to overly think about all the things that could possibly happen, because this is real life. I'm not. I'm not going to do this forever. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 20:41

It does. You said he needs to learn to handle these. In your mind do you feel like I was either incapable of handling my own emotions or I needed assistance with it?

Speaker 2 20:52

no, I don't. It's not that you needed assistance with it, but I just kind of looked at it's like what's the point of having a partner if you don't have nobody to help you with the?

Speaker 3 20:59

that you can't see no, that actually makes a lot of sense, you know what I I mean and I think that it is helpful.

Speaker 2 21:04

But I think I got to a place where I saw myself doing that for everybody. It wasn't just you, it was with the kids and I wasn't applying the same care that I was to you and the kids to myself.

Speaker 3 21:17

When you say you would do the most. What was my reaction when you would do that?

Speaker 2 21:20

I mean, you were grateful. So my decision to fall back wasn't based on your reaction. I think your reaction was more like if I did it, that was cool. If I didn't, it was cool. It showed me that I didn't have to do all of that. You would be appreciative. But I didn't have to do that and in my mind it took a lot of effort for me to do that. So when I was doing it it was just like wow, like I'm kind of exhausted. I don't always want to do that. So when I kind of pulled back and fell back, I realized that the response was the same. So I had created this need for me to do something when there wasn't a need at all.

Speaker 3 21:57

Ooh, that's a good one. I agree with you. I'll actually take it a step further. A lot of times when you would do that, it'll be a wrestling match, because now in my mind I'm like, well, okay, she wants to be useful, so I guess I'll, you know, kind of let her cover that, because I am a hyper independent very much, I don't need nobody in my mind.

Speaker 2 22:17

Strong, independent man don't need nobody.

Speaker 1 22:22

We say that a lot but.

Speaker 3 22:23

But what happens when you're like, when you're that type of person, is once you get in partnership with a person who enjoys being needed even though I do not enjoy being needed, I can't identify with that at all.

Speaker 2 22:36

He's like damn, I need to do something.

Speaker 3 22:39

All right, fine and no one's like, but the difference is purpose. I said it before you find purpose in it and I feel exhausted by it. But it was also exhausting trying to make room for you to be that thing when that's not ever what I need from you.

Speaker 2 22:53

I know, and I know that, and I know that that's a good one.

Speaker 3 22:58

Yeah, yeah, that's really good.

Navigating Past Relationship Baggage

Speaker 2 22:59

Yeah, all right, because I thought you'd be like, yeah, you did too much. Oh my god, my little heart no, you.

Speaker 3 23:04

You think you think that I think you do too much, way more frequently than I actually do Because you'll say something. Sometimes, even on a sit-down talk you'll be like. You'll say something like no, because I do too much. And one time I said no, amy, why do you think you do too much? Because people tell me I do too much.

Speaker 2 23:26

Who tells you you do too much? You did once, it was.

Speaker 1 23:27

You know how sometimes you get into an argument with somebody and they just say that one thing and it's just like, and it yeah, I know you now.

Speaker 2 23:32

Yeah, enough to know that it wasn't that deep then, but it's stick. But it was one of those things where I know my personality and in past relationships. Okay, I'm, I'm going to do, I'm going to go off real, real quick. Someone made a comment from our last video about how they were really proud of us for for talking about past relationships, cause people like to get into marriages and relationships not knowing that people been in love before, been in other relationships before, had different situations with other people, and like that's not a bad thing. You bring the things that you learn from those relationships into your current relationship and you learn from them and you grow from them and you move forward. Like we can't just forget about the past, the people that we were in love with before.

Speaker 3 24:13

They also shape your identity in a very meaningful way.

Speaker 2 24:16

Hell yeah. But I've been in relationships before where men told me that I did too much and granted looking back on them.

Speaker 3 24:29

I will say a lot of those times it was more of an attack versus like a sit down conversation. Oh, it was an attack on your character.

Speaker 2 24:31

Yeah, you know what I mean. It was like a no shade, but it was like you're a bossy and it's like. For me it's just like, but you don't want to take accountability for this.

Speaker 2 24:37

You know, what I mean. Like you had a responsibility, you didn't do it, you calling me boss. But I'm like, but you didn't do it, so somebody had to do it. So I internalized that. So when you would say, you know you kind of doing too much, it took me back to those relationships and I'm like, well, I ain't going to do nothing.

Speaker 2 24:52

You know, and it was, it's an internal battle that I was kind of going through and like, not just that I did stuff that they didn't want me to do, you know, it kind of took on its own kind of beast and that one comment just brought me back. That's a tender spot for me. But I think, like now that we're in this relationship where, like I trust you, I can talk to you about anything, like I can talk to you about my insecurities, you talk to me about your insecurities, like it's a safer space to really kind of like dig deeper and try to figure out what the problem is there. And that's kind of where I was, like you know what, I don't have to move in the relationship with that in mind. I don't have to hang on to that comment, because that comment isn't the same thing. It was just a fleeting moment. You didn't mean the same thing that they meant when they said similar things.

Speaker 2 25:43

And I think I had to learn how to separate that and you still learning how to separate that.

Speaker 3 25:48

It's a mountain that you still climbing and I see it. If, if I feel real talk, it's also the way that I talk to you. I I changed it. It's a tone and it's an approach that makes you feel like you're not doing too it's changed completely yeah. So what I'll say if you're giving me a lot of information at once or you're being I'm not gonna say overly helpful, because that sounds disrespectful, but you, but you, you're helping me.

Speaker 3 26:10

Y'all know what yeah you're helping me when I I didn't ask for it and I don't really need it. In a moment, I said babe, give me one second to figure this out instead of being like you're doing too much because it's it's. It takes the focus off of her. It's not you're doing too much, it's. Give me a second to figure this out. I bring the focus back to me.

Speaker 2 26:26

Can I give you your flowers real quick?

Speaker 3 26:27

It's called a classic overcorrection. Humans do it all the time. You get one person in a relationship to talk to you crazy and once you decide that hey, I don't like this, this ain't for me, no more, and you step away from that relationship. What people do is called an overcorrection, so you'll be like I ain't never gonna let nobody talk to me crazy again. And you go past that and you become hyper aware sometimes. So if anybody says anything that you think is a little bit off, it registers to you is them talking crazy? You see people all the time flying off the handle to other people. It's not that they're just these super aggressive attackers. It's just that in their they're trying to be self-protective and they're over-practicing self-protection. And whenever you over-practice or you over-correct you're going past the point of it being helpful for you. Now it's detrimental to you and your relationship. You want to get my flowers?

Speaker 2 27:16

Yeah, let me get them joints. I was waiting. I was like he didn't hear me Um um you're.

Speaker 2 27:27

I gotta hold my head high when I get my flowers. No, your flowers are. You have been speaking to me with so much grace lately, not to say that you didn't before, but you didn't like this, I think. I think you you showed your frustration with me in my ways a little bit more before, like when we first started dating, and it it's like now. I feel seen and understood, but still checked with grace. You wouldn't say like damn babe, you doing too much. It's more like babe, I see where this is coming from and I feel like you might be thinking this. But why don't we reframe it and think like this? And I really appreciate you for that, because we all have things that we have to work on and no one is a clearer mirror than the person that you're in a relationship with. They see it all.

Speaker 3 28:15

Man. I love that reference. A mirror in a relationship is very similar.

Speaker 2 28:20

And then we haven't been together for 10 years but we've kind of been in a relationship with each other.

Speaker 3 28:24

We've known each other for 10 years but we've kind of been in a relationship with each other.

Speaker 2 28:25

We've known each other for 10 years but we've known each other really well. We got to know each other. We got to know each other pretty fast once we opened that door. But to know someone and to know their mannerisms for the past 10 years and to see the people that they talk about he knows my mom, he has a relationship with my mom, so when I reference stories he can see it because he knows her personality. He knows my dad, he knows my family, he knows my friends. So it's like it's different when you have somebody that understands the nuances of your personality and your life, giving you constructive criticism versus somebody who just met you. And it's human nature to tie things to what feels familiar to you. So you might not be giving me advice based on what you know about me. You're giving me advice based on what sounds familiar, what you know about other people, and you're taking those experiences and bringing them in. I just feel like the advice just feels, the advice, the guidance and just the words it comes with just knowing me a lot better.

Speaker 3 29:22

That's the key. That's the key. Knowing somebody better what helped me a lot better that's the key. That's the key. Knowing somebody better. What helped me a lot is seeing couples in therapy and seeing their disconnect.

Speaker 2 29:31

I want to be a fly on the wall, in like a couple's therapy session I wish not one on tv, because I feel like those, the ones on tv, be kind of crazy which one like couples therapy, like that show.

Speaker 3 29:40

Nah, that's average.

Speaker 2 29:42

Those are supremely like I'm gonna go off topic for a bit, like all all I know is that. And us, where do we kind of stand Like, can you take a step back?

Speaker 3 29:51

Comparative to other people, yeah.

Speaker 2 29:52

People. Is that like bad to do?

Speaker 3 29:54

I'm going to take therapist brain off because I'm going to be a little judgmental. I think that people have ridiculous expectations of other people comparative to where those people are in their lives. What's funny is what you think the husbands will have issues with and the wives. It's inversed so frequently. Really, there's so many husbands that think their wives are slobs Really. Oh my gosh, yeah.

Speaker 2 30:16

Yeah, they can't go online to say that.

Speaker 3 30:18

Well, a lot of men probably wouldn't, because other men wouldn't respect you.

Speaker 2 30:23

Yeah, I was just saying it based on, like, what we see on social media. That's yeah how it's so different because I couldn't imagine a man saying like my, my wife is a slob Cause. I'd be like, is she a mother? Like is she? That's my natural reaction.

Speaker 3 30:36

But that's a lot of people there. There are gender based expectations on us already that you determined before anyone ever says a word.

Speaker 2 30:51

That hit me hard.

Speaker 3 30:52

I've never even considered that that would be something that would come up in a couples therapy session. I think that we are more considerate of one another than a lot of people. I think that we're able to put our personal differences to the side for a common goal. I think a lot of people struggle common goal. I think a lot of people struggle with that. I think a lot of people struggle with not being mean and nasty and spiteful and petty when they're upset.

Speaker 3 31:13

All of those things are beautifully human, but they f*** up your relationship in 30 different ways. It's not that people can't see it. It's just that the human brain will justify almost anything if it's angry enough, if it feels slighted, if it feels like it's being treated unfairly or unjustly, people will. They'll do whatever they need to do, jump through whatever mental gymnastics they have to in order to justify whatever their reaction is. And then they go to their various communities. You go back to your boys and be like, yeah, man, she messed up. You go back to your girls girl, you deserve better and they just validate whatever half-chewed information you offer them up. It's funny, man, it's. It's so funny watching people move and then the way they present in real life and their social media is like this ain't I don't know, man something feels askew yeah, can I ask you a question

Speaker 2 32:03

yeah so, going back to the flowers that I gave you, about the grace thing, it seems to me that like that's the missing key in a lot of like the tension in relationships, especially when it comes to stuff like that. What, like are you just naturally able to give me grace? Like how are you there? Because I don't think you do that for everybody.

Speaker 3 32:24

No, but you're family.

Speaker 2 32:27

Because it was a choice.

Speaker 3 32:29

It's a choice to do it. Yeah, I actually like you as a person. I like this marriage, I like our situation and I want to be fair. That's what fairness looks like to me. Don't get me wrong. We ain't that special. There are several couples out there that are functional, that have great communication, that vibe and bounce. Everybody's not in a terrible marriage, like that's just not true. But I think it's a mix of everything. I think it's me becoming a therapist. I think it's me kind of navigating my bad relationship with fatherhood. I think it's me navigating this bad relationship with marriage, because I would have took you without the marriage, but that's that don't make sense in anybody else's mind. But mine and I, committed to this joint, like I want to give it a fair shot. You treat me very well. I feel like you treat me with grace and we got another episode coming out. Damn, we really going off topic. We might not get these three off baby.

Speaker 3 33:18

Let's just do one more then I bet, but we'll make an episode out of this. But when Noemi was pregnant oh, I remember this woman was seven months pregnant walked up to me and said babe, what can I do to better support you? What? You were pregnant and you were scared, but you were still a partner. You never stopped being a partner. You never blamed me for things that I couldn't control, that were going on with you. You never did that.

Speaker 2 33:45

Because I saw a partnership growing up. You know my parents divorced. Nobody thought my parents would get divorced when they did. That's a whole other conversation. But they showed me what true partnership looked like. Yeah, like without the gender expectations. Like my dad stayed at home and my mom worked, not because he couldn't find a job or whatever. It worked better for their hours. Yeah, even to this day as as a divorce they still, they still nice with it yeah, they, they just their partnership skills are a one, and that was my baseline.

Speaker 2 34:20

So I know that if I wanted my kids to see what I saw growing up like, it wasn't even a question.

Speaker 3 34:27

Man. I'll tell you, man, we've really gone off the hinges. But one thing that helped in our relationship is your relationship with your dad. I've never dated a woman that had that great of a relationship with her father. I 've also never dated a woman that had that great of a relationship with her mother.

Speaker 2 34:43

Yeah, I love my parents. They get on my nerves, but I love y'all.

Speaker 3 34:46

But I think your dad being an example for you, like that. You just didn't come into this relationship with preconceived notions of what a man is, what a man does and what a man is supposed to be.

Emotional Bonding and Communication Norms

Speaker 3 34:56

I did though I did, you did, but they weren't in the light of negativity. No, they were not. They weren't rooted in hurt, they weren't rooted in abandonment, and that, in my dating experience, is tremendously rare, very rare. So I felt like you came in with a set of tools that made me feel like, oh, okay, maybe I need to approach this a little bit different. Our relationship hasn't always been like that and I don't know if I always felt like I needed to do all of this, but where we are now feels worth it. We've built this thing and it's floating, it's doing good. That's my contribution. I feel like that's the least I can do, but I understand why that's hard for some people.

Speaker 3 35:33

I also grew up in a house with a mother who gave me hugs and kisses and love and we had conversation. I never felt alienated in my own house. I never felt like it wasn't okay to cry or express emotion. We talked about culture, we talked about everything, and I feel like that diversity from her gave me a level of flexibility that I don't see in a lot of men that I know, an emotional bandwidth that I don't know if you can get, if you're getting your ass whooped every night, if you're a six-year-old boy and you're getting your ass whooped because you peed in the bed. I don't know if you always grow to have those faculties at that level of strength. So yeah, I don't know, I can't just credit me. Man, I was raised by my mom and my grandma. They were incredible and they yeah, I think they helped me out a lot. Man, shout out to them God, rest their souls. What's my other joint?

Speaker 3 36:19

I think I mentioned this before in another sit down talk, but I still struggle with it. So let's giddy up. I think one thing that I can do it's kind of surface level in my mind, but it bothers me a lot when I do. It is in the vein of thinking for you. Sometimes, when you're talking, I might complete your sentence because I think I know what you're saying and then that ain't what you're saying and it seems very surface level. But I do think that there's something in sitting and listening to a person talk and not interjecting, which I have a hard time with. Kev on stage made me feel comfortable admitting that I'm going to interrupt you a lot. Kev will tell you like he'll be, like I'm going to interrupt you a lot and I'm sorry about that but I'm going to do it.

Speaker 2 37:00

He said that to me one time I don't remember what was this I don't remember. Who knows this? I don't remember.

Speaker 3 37:05

Who knows, I remember that conversation and I was like, oh, that makes I feel validated, ollie. No, it's fine, go ahead, do that. Go ahead, cook, sir. But I know that I do that with you and I want to do that less because I think it does trickle to other things and I think it does play into me having, like me, trying to predict a fortune, tell and guess what you're saying, instead of just sitting and listening and observing. It bothers me when I do that, but I can't stop you know what's so funny?

Speaker 2 37:32

I do think that you do that, but it's never bothered me thank god it's never set me free.

Speaker 3 37:37

I'm doing it all the time.

Speaker 2 37:38

Now I'm about to let the chopper fly but and what do you do when you say I let you finish? I always let him finish and I'll be like, yeah, but that's not where I was going with it. Like I don't mind you saying that, because it also lets me know where you're at yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe that goes back to the grace thing like

Speaker 2 37:55

because if anybody else does it, I'm gonna tell you now, don't do that. It's gonna piss me off. But it's just something I don't know. It's like you give grace, so it makes it makes it easy for me to give you grace. I don't know if I cut you off, but, like I, you don't really talk about your feelings as often as you think you do, because you make a living talking about feelings so most of the time he talks to me in shorthand even if, like, I feel like that's not where I'm at and you finish it must I like.

Speaker 2 38:23

I just like to hear where you are, because you don't often share where you are emotionally, and I understand this, because it's exhausting. Could you imagine? Your job is to talk about feelings all day, and it's like it's not even monotonous. You talk about feelings in your IG reels, you talk about your feelings on TikTok, you talk your feelings on the podcast, then you do a speaking engagement.

Speaker 3 38:46

It's a lot of talking about the feels. We have one emotional conversation for the night the podcast. Then you do a speaking engagement, Like I. It's a lot of talking about emotional conversation for the night.

Speaker 2 38:50

The next morning. I'm done. I'm done, I can't. I want to talk about feelings for fun, not for work. So honestly, it's not something that bothered me at all. I know that you do it. You've never stopped doing it. So I don't I mean I don't mind, because you, you're also flexible enough to be like if I tell you that's not where I'm at you because you, you're also flexible enough to be like.

Speaker 3 39:14

If I tell you that's not where I'm at, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, and that's it. Because it's not about the pride of being right or the ego of figuring this thing out, it's just about, I think, a part of me, kind of am I trying to move the conversation along because you're more long-winded than I am?

Speaker 2 39:22

yeah, because I don't talk for a living, so this is my chance to get it all out no, babe, naturally you just more along with it than me. I like to talk. I enjoy it.

Speaker 3 39:30

I don't, I don't like, I mean, I like, like this, but I just think people talk too much. I think people fill words with space and I because my face be on screens and people know me from other places they be they just be trying to make conversation that that ain't interesting. Like you can just say hey, hey, what's up bro? And keep it moving, but people try to force this You're very direct, yeah, but I learned that from you.

Speaker 3 39:53

If I'm not interested in the conversation, I'll cut it short. If I don't have a lot to say, I don't have a lot to say, I don't feel the need to force it. People talk too much, man. It's just too many words.

Speaker 2 40:02

We're not. It's just people wanting to hear themselves speak.

Speaker 3 40:12

I almost walked away from the table dog. This is something about-. I hate you so much man.

Speaker 2 40:18

This is a perfect segue to what I was going to say. I wasn't expecting it to get here, and I think I'm better at that.

Speaker 3 40:26

Oh, this is your second joint. Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2 40:28

I think I'm better at that and it's not just a you thing, I think I'm better at it with you, all right, but I'm realizing it's a thing with people Give it to me. I'm so over people saying a whole bunch of shit but not saying anything. Get to the point.

Speaker 3 40:41

Yeah, because the transparative properties of the super infringable like that type of shit.

Speaker 2 40:46

Not even that, but it's just like you have a problem. Tell me what the problem is. You're so worried about my response to the problem, what words you're gonna use. Like I can tell and this is not just a you thing, but it's like I can tell when people want to tell me something and they're talking around the subject oh, you hate that and you hate the petty part of me is like now I'm gonna make you uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 41:07

Like I said, I don't know that I did it with you, because if I did, it was it't long. This is definitely something that I've kind of learned.

Speaker 3 41:15

Oh, you have got better at that.

Speaker 2 41:18

Yeah, I know what you're talking about you got a story I'm trying to give them an example, because we know what we're talking about, but I'm not saying it right.

Speaker 3 41:26

One time me and Noemi were on a panel together First time we ever did a panel together. I've done a million speaking events. I think this was one of her first ones and a woman in the audience asked me a very gender loaded question and I think that I was trying to process how I wanted to answer it and what I wanted to say. And she gets on the mic and says, yeah, you're talking around it, you're not saying what needs to be said, so I'm just going to say it and I'm like, ah, and I think we got off my house. Like, babe, don't do that, no more.

Speaker 2 41:53

Like that's bad speaker etiquette. I still have nightmares about that because let me just be 100 honest. I don't remember what the hell I said, but I do remember the way that I made him feel and anytime that we have like a live event, I'm on pins and needles no, don't be no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I know, I know it's.

Speaker 3 42:11

I know, I know it's in my head, but it was, was not that deep.

Speaker 2 42:14

But that was the first time that, like anyone had told me that I had done something and I was like oh, yeah, yeah, girl, you did that.

Improving Communication and Consideration

Speaker 3 42:26

But you know what, though I understand that, I think the cool part to me is that you don't trip. You just like, oh my bad. You don't go into justifying why and making excuses and dancing. You don't do all that. You're like, oh my bad, I didn't realize I did that. It's never a thing after that, it's the acknowledgement, it. I don't even need the apology, just the acknowledgement. I didn't realize I did that. I don't even need an apology. The acknowledgement is enough for me. And and you did that, so it's cool, and you ain't know. But that's like being in a rap cypher and somebody going uh, uh and they about to rap, and then you just start rapping Like yo what you doing, bro?

Speaker 2 43:04

That ain't how it go. I understand the rules of the game and, like he said it was my first like I'm not. I love to speak, I think I'm a great speaker, but I'm not a professional speaker. I think that there are nuances and just things that you pick up from doing these things often that Keir has. I was a rookie on the mic. You know what I mean. I know I got excited.

Speaker 3 43:27

You answered the question, but you did get straight to the point though.

Speaker 2 43:31

Yeah, you said the thing that I was dancing around, for sure but where I was going to say that I've been working on is just because I don't like to hear the fluff doesn't mean that that person doesn't need the fluff for them to feel comfortable. And I think for me, how I used to look at things is like if you're going to tell me something about myself, tell me. I prioritize myself and my feelings in the situation, not. And just because it's not hard for me to give constructive criticism doesn't mean it's not hard for other people to do it. So the same way that, like you said that earlier.

Speaker 3 44:03

You mentioned that you said that's something you struggle with? Yeah, you think this is easy for you. You think it's easy for everybody.

Speaker 2 44:09

A lot of people struggle with that I just think I'm more aware of people and their stuff now and, like before, I kind of thought of it like it's your stuff, it's your responsibility. I don't know GAF, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 44:22

Don't gaffe, Hans.

Speaker 2 44:23

And it wasn't fake you know how some people say that they don't care, but they're playing it.

Speaker 3 44:30

I genuinely do not care Like when people say they're unbothered, and they're the most bothered person that every.

Speaker 2 44:35

if you ever say you're unbothered, I don't believe you but I am ask any of my friends who know me, but you don't, but you don't say you're unbothered, you don't use those words.

Speaker 3 44:46

No, but if you use those words in my mind, yeah, you're supremely bothered I usually say I'm not tripping.

Speaker 2 44:52

I'm never tripping. Ask, ask any of my closest friends who know me for real. That's the one thing that they're most annoyed by me. It's like no way you don't trip. Listen, I got to feed my kids dinner. I don't care, I got bigger things. I got to pay these bills. I got to figure out spring break summer camp Girl I don't care. Spring break, summer camp like girl.

Speaker 3 45:16

I don't care why summer camp so expensive dog I can pay away you mad.

Speaker 2 45:21

You want me to get you dinner, girl, go do what you gotta do, and I just think that like I've gotten better at like holding space for my friends and also you, whose personality isn't like that, I've learned that even with Kier sometimes that gentle approach is still aggressive sometimes. I'm used to hearing that because my mom is like that. My dad is even like that sometimes, but it's just adjusting to the person that you're talking to. Their emotional comfort. If you care about them, I think that it's worth considering and I think I'm way more considerate now than I've ever been.

Speaker 3 45:58

And as we land this plane, I hope that if you're a person who's struggling to be considerate in that regard, you get a chance to practice it and other relationships in your life that aren't your romantic relationships, so that you can build that muscle, because it's not something that everybody's born with. Everyone doesn't have the parents who have modeled that for them, or family or community who's shown them that this is a way that you can act. Most people it just doesn't register in their mind that way. So shout out to you if you're one of those people who can actually grow the capacity to do that and be there for the folks who you love so dearly.

Speaker 3 46:32

In the comment section below, I want you to tell us like is is this any of these things we talked about? Are they something that you struggled with? Are there something you struggled with in the past? Are there something that somebody that you loved in the past or currently love struggle with? Write it down. Tell us what you've done to see that through. How have y'all got better at that? Where have you noticed that there have been improvements? Because in the comment section, some of y'all leaving some amazing comments that I read and I take something away from. So never undermine how much your light may light somebody else. Oh, I love that. I used to say kindle how your light can kindle somebody else. I'm trying to switch it up for the 99 and the 2000. Uh, are we done?

Speaker 2 47:13

I mean yeah, I don't think we got nothing else to discuss. Can I at least end it with this yeah, go ahead. I'm really glad we did this.

Speaker 3 47:20

Yeah, I thought it was a good exercise.

Authentic Relationship Challenge

Speaker 2 47:21

I'm really glad we did this A lot of times. When Kira and I have like ideas for the sit down talk, we usually kind of talk about it in advance or to. We try to get each other's kind of feelings on things. But I really wanted us to do this challenge. What do you want to call it a challenge? Sure, let's call it I really wanted this challenge to be as authentic as possible because, like this is needed in any kind of relationship, even friendships like this, this check-in is necessary, definitely friendships absolutely I think, I think you should do it with your friends first.

Speaker 2 47:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, practice with your friends, with your friend.

Speaker 3 47:55

Practice with a friend that you know love and trust. That's going to be it for us today. I think we kind of wrap this up make sure that you hit the subscribe button. Also, make sure that you hit the notification button so you can know of all of our posts as soon as they post. Remember, we're streaming on every platform. Everyone tell a friend, shoot them a sit down, talk. Something here is valuable to somebody, so go ahead and send that, but we will catch y'all. Hey, look at us. What consistency.

Speaker 3 48:19

I know we catch y'all on the flip side. Y'all be well peace.